New thriller The G, receiving its UK Premiere at Glasgow Film Festival sees a grandmother fall victim to a corrupt application of the legal guardianship framework in the US. Unbeknown to the criminals that took everything from her, she has a shady past of her own which she isn’t afraid to utilise. We spoke to the writer and director Karl R. Hearne and star Dale Dickey about The G, and the freedom and the difficulties of working outside the Hollywood system.
Can you tell us a bit about The G?
Karl: I would start with the inspiration, which was my Irish grandmother. This is why I sort of came up with the idea for the film. And it was basically a film about this woman and her character. And obviously, it’s an intense character, and that was very true to life. And you know, and then I took that inspiration for the film and put it in what to me is a pretty fascinating context of legalised exploitation of the elderly in North America. Yeah. But always the inspiration and the main thrust of the film was this portrait of this person and what she’s capable of. And then the next step was finding someone who would really realise that beautifully and Dale, who’s amazing, did that as well as I could have hoped for.
Was the character of Ann written with Dale in mind, because when you watch the film you can’t imagine anybody else in the role?
Karl: I’ve been asked this quite a few times. In a way yes, in a way no, because when I was writing it, I was really focused not on an actor. I was focused on my actual grandmother to a large extent. But Dale was the first person that I imagined for the role. I’d already seen her in a lot of things as a badass.I knew that wasn’t going to be difficult for her. But the thing is, she’s also played these other interesting roles. I’ve mentioned this one before, Leave No Trace. She has a supporting role, but there’s a real understated compassion that comes through. She’s really concerned about this girl, but she can’t really come out and say it. There’s there’s a whole depth to the performance. And I just knew that she would be amazing.
How did you go about preparing for the role? Because Ann is a mysterious character and her criminal past in Texas is hinted at, did you have a full backstory fleshed out for the character that you could draw on but didn’t need to necessarily depict on screen?
Dale: Yeah, I always have done some sort of backstory, you know, particularly if it’s a large roll like this. Karl and I talked about what that life was like beforehand, because she’s been gone from that life for quite a while, but it was an intense upbringing and it’s kind of hard to talk about because that’s, you know, revealed in the movie. The transition she makes [to violence] I play a lot of that. That’s not so much of a challenge to turn that that anger side on. But mostly just just getting to know Karl and the fellow actors helped me bring to fruition the full story of her. I mean, there’s no historical thing to prepare on. Karl couldn’t tell me too much about his grandma.
Karl: Yeah. legally obligated not to speak too much about my grandmother. That’s not true. Just a little bit [laughs]. I do have one thing to add. There were certain certain – I don’t know, I hope this was kind of sweet – but there were certain little things that we did to get into the backstory a little bit emotionally. There was this one song that is in the film and that I presented to Dale and the actor playing her husband in the film. It’s a West Texan love song that’s in there. And then Greg [Ellwand], the guy playing Chip in the film, recorded himself playing it on the guitar and sent it in. He actually has a lovely voice. It was just really sweet. So there was none of that is really in the film, except there is sort of like an afterglow of this tenderness, you know, it’s there. But to me, it’s like a reference to a story. There was a love story, but it happened long ago. And there’s a certain bleakness obviously, which is where we are now.
Dale: I’d forgotten that and that was beautiful! But starts off with [Ann] not accepting ageing very well, and particularly taking care of her husband who appears much older. And so she’s sort of gone down the toilet in terms of not taking care of herself or her husband really. And then she gets her her vitality back, because they piss her off.
Karl: And also, why should she accept ageing gracefully? I mean, you can, but you don’t have to.
How did you go about making sure it stayed grounded, because although Ann’s an incredibly formidable and capable person, there are limits? There is vulnerability there, and she’s not able to get out of the situation entirely on her own.
Dale: I always go back to the script and reread and reread because you’re always finding little gems and after you’ve shot a scene, you go home that night and go, ‘Oh fuck! I should’ve done this and should have done that!’ So the more I can think and throw different ideas out there, the more I can come to set prepared, but this was a relatively simple journey in terms of once she flips, it’s there, and she goes right back to that; that childhood, and the life that she knew, and protecting her family. I’m very protective of my family, and particularly my elderly parents who have both passed now. And then the other actors like Romane [Denis], who plays my granddaughter, is lovely to work with and, and she’s young and gave me lots of energy.
Karl: Can I add one other thing to that? Because I like what you said about… she’s not superhuman, obviously. I think what you were also saying, when you say she can’t do this, it’s not like she’s doing everything entirely on her own. I mean, a few different things have to happen. I think that was something that I was certainly aware of is she can’t she can’t do everything. But on the other hand, as Dale said, once things start going in this direction, there’s no real hesitation on her part.
And this is another lead role just after A Love Song. Do you think it’s become a better environment for more interesting roles for actresses over the age of 40? It used to seem like the options were love interest and then grandparents, and that there was kind of nothing in between.
Dale: I do. I think it’s changing. I’ve been very lucky to have these two roles back to back with young, curious, interesting, terrific directors that have written beautiful stories. Yeah, Hollywood is a sand trap, particularly for women. From the time I did theatre as a kid and even in college, I played everyone under 12 and over 50. I never played my own age [laughs]! I was always playing older or younger.
Karl: It remains to be seen, like, you know, I mean, I think that these are two indie films. Both allowed Dale to show what she can do in a bigger, fuller roll on a bigger platform. So obviously, that’s two directors who have no doubts about what she can do but but whether a studio is going to start doing this, that remains to be seen.
Dale: Yeah, that’s it and that’s sort of been my journey in Hollywood. When I was first starting to work and do more supporting roles in and out in in and out, my agents would come to me and go, ‘Oh, this kid’s doing their thesis for their graduate film. Are you interested?’ And I’m like, if there’s nothing else yes, of course! If I’m not losing a big money job. It’s the new writers, you know, the indies that are gonna allow these kinds of roles to be seen. The studios, they don’t care, there’s no imagination there. If you’re over 40 and have wrinkles on your face you’re done. Well, no, we’re not!
Karl: This [interview] is a part of that. People like yourself getting the message out that this is a possibility. The more these films are seen and noticed by the press, I think that there’s a bigger chance that there will be more opportunities for people.
Dale: I hope so.
On a similar note, do you object to the term character actor? Because that tends to imply a slightly pejorative tone.
Dale: I don’t any longer. I mean, I remember first hearing that term in college when they would say, ‘Well, you’re a character actor.’ And what does that mean? It means, you’re never going to play the beautiful, young leading role. So that was always in my head and I knew I wasn’t a beautiful woman. You know, ‘I was pretty in my own way,’ as per the role I did in Chorus Line.
Karl: I mean, I wouldn’t say it’s pejorative, but I know what you’re talking about, because what it’s typically been used [to mean], is someone who’s a really good actor, but can’t carry a film. That’s how Hollywood people view the term. It’s like, they’re great in anything but we can’t have them as a lead. And I think these two roles are a pretty good answer to that.
Dale: I see a lot of the women that are objectified in Hollywood, and some of the men, that only get certain roles, and I’m sure it’s just as frustrating for them. They want to play the bad lady or they want to play somebody dark, and they won’t put them onto that peg because it’s not the norm. And that’s what I love about indie film, is that they break that and that’s where the good writing and the best stories are. They’re real people, people who don’t have their stories told.
Talking of indie film, how difficult is it actually to get a film made – to get funding, to get distribution?
Karl: Depends who your parents are [laughs]! I mean, for me, it was really hard. For most indie films, it’s a struggle, but I think it’s getting harder and harder. I mean, in North America, you just you need to be connected to some billionaire. Or your father is a big Hollywood producer or whatever. There’s a lot of that. But there’s always a lot of determined people trying to make their film, whatever the cost, so yeah, I mean, it’s it’s not easy. I’ll tell you that.
Dale: As I’ve always said, if there’s anything else you can do, you better do it. You better really love what you’re doing or it’s not going to be worth it because it can be a very tough journey. And for so many people now it seems to me about fame and fortune, because you see people go so quickly. And that can happen to a couple of people, but for the average actor, you’re going to be a journeyman, you know? A worker bee actor, which is what I’ve been and what I love.
There’s a certain democratisation of it that’s come since digital films made it a little bit cheaper to pick up and play, but you still need backing.
Dale: Yeah, and I can remember hearing years ago that before COVID It was harder and harder for any films to get financed. It’s like on Broadway, they put all these big mega movie and TV stars in a show to make the money back, and they think if they don’t have that they’re not going to make it back. But it’s not all about greed.
Karl: I think what it’s done more than anything is it’s democratised YouTube stardom more than it has feature filmmaking. And whether you love that or hate that or whatever, anyone can afford to do that, but not anyone can afford to [make a movie]. Okay, you have a cheap camera, but we had five unions on our shoot! Like, you know, I mean, your cheap camera only going to help you so far. Unless just everyone is doing a favour for you, and there’s a limit to that as well.
Dale: Recently with the strike and the picket lines and stuff and talking to people… you forget with AI replacing actors you don’t have a crew. Everybody’s gone. You don’t have the hair and makeup and the gaffers and the grips and caterers and all of that. So everybody’s out of work. A little scary.
Do you have any other projects in the pipeline that you can talk about?
Karl: I don’t think I would really get into the detail right now because it’s a little early. We always tell people that we’re going to do a sequel to The G; The G 2: Judgement Day! So stay tuned. We were even talking about doing something about [Ann’s] backstory a little bit but nothing to announce at this stage.
Dale: How are you gonna find find a person that looks like this to play the young G?
Karl: We’re just going to use you with CGI. AI is not so scary after all!
Dale: I’d love to work with Karl again actually. Actually, Sean Penn, who I’ve worked with twice now, called me up 18 years after the first film out of the blue, and said, ‘I need you to play an older role in a film, but you’re really too young for it. We’ll have to age you up,’ And I said, ‘Sean, have you seen me? I’m the wrinkliest woman in Hollywood!’ But there were a lot of flashbacks and they did use CGI [for de-ageing]. Sean ended up playing my husband the other actors were not available, so it works. I’m actually up for a part in another film where again, they said, ‘Will she do this? She’s playing this actors mother, but he’s only five years younger.’ And [my agent] said, ‘Of course she’ll do it. She’s an actress!’
The G received its UK Premiere and screens Sat 2 Mar 2024 as part of Glasgow Film Festival